Irony mode

What a shame! Another super accurate mod for a super accurate sim that won't see the light of day!

/Irony mode

note the second monitor dedicated to Foobar2000 in slightly transparant mode

(note the sims/games icons on the main screen might not reflect my taste of race sims..)

About the NAP mod, don't forget that its second peak (small as it is) happens BEYOND 90 degrees slip angle.. 90 of course being the peak possible lateral angle you can put a tyre on a surface at....

The scary thing is, some guy went like this (roughly)

"Hmmm don't like GTR2"
"Oooh! tyre files with numbers!"

<changes some numbers>

"woot! going well here!"

<finds 'physics editor' freeware thingy that shows the numbers as graphs>

"Cool stuff!" (followed by tweak / drive / tweak)
"This feels great!"

<goes back to the physics curve program>

"oops! I made a mistake, there are two peaks! I must have found the secret!"

<doesn't realize that with the step size in the tyre file, and the SIN being taken from them to get the actual slip angle, the graph effectively stops being 'noticed' by the sim sometime before this magic second peak is reached>

Ok thats toungue firmly in cheek but if you release something as silly as that and call it advanced, it shows how poor the standards are in Mod City


Edit: Nice one Kid Now of course there will be a licensed CART sim using ISI physics.. without any turbo modelling of course.. Now thats not the worst thing about ISI physics, but it highlights the problem exactly: Modders got used to ISI, they can make nice cars and tracks. One in 10 cars might even sound nice. One in 100 shows serious attempts made to improve the physics, which will fail as the base is simply flawed.

If physics people would get the green light for a CART sim, they would simply not consider ISI as turbo engines are different from regular aspirated engines.. It shows how wrong the state of mind is.

Meanwhile that will be the 5th sim (GTR, GTL, GTR2, WTCC, CART) to be great on paper only to be ruined by ISI's poor physics

/rant

Last edited by Niels Heusinkveld, Tue 7 Nov 2006, 18:16.

Then there is the "adsf" signature.. Bet Tristan didn't see that; thats obviously going to make him reconsider his avatar..

A race length worth of this would be amazing.. This is an out lap driven at 70% (max!) but the effect is already quite cool

Sadly rFactor even with 'real' type tyre curves still doesn't seem to make much sense when you're over the limit.. That was dissapointing when I tried

S14 drift, I continued with this:

"Surprisingly though they mostly work fine but they can cause issues. You're much better off with a 350W model of a good brand (Fortron, Seasonic..)"

So yeah they mostly work but are dodgy quality. Many times when reviewed and put under an actual load of 550W they die, sometimes taking pc parts with it. Plus often cheap PSUs, if they DO deliver the rated wattage, do that at room temperature.. Of course the components heat up under use and often the output drops to <50% at 50 degrees. Companies like Seasonic and Fortron tend to specify the load a 50 degrees or there abouts.. Anyways, I hope the Coolermaster (one step above 'cheap crap' mostly) will do the job MaximUK! Report back with the, hopefully, good news

Lets hope that solves it for you, I have a good feeling it will..

(Nvidia cards have their temperature threshold set at 120c which would indicate that they don't see a threatening situation until that point. There are 'passively cooled' cards that often run near 100c in most cases. As long as you can loop 3dmark overnight and you have no artifacts in games, it will last for many gaming years )

Graphics cards at 72c are no problem; most only 'throttle down' (I would call that 'braking' or 'slowing down ) at 120c. My card (6800gt) runs in the 90s and works fine.

Perhaps it is your PSU. Generic 550W models by cheap brands like QTEC are absolutely horrible. Surprisingly though they mostly work fine but they can cause issues. You're much better off with a 350W model of a good brand (Fortron, Seasonic..)

Perhaps you can borrow someones powersupply and see what happens with that? Or you can perhaps buy a new PSU (if decent brand, 350 or 400W is more than enough) and ask if you can get a refund if it doesn't solve the problem..

Edit: and it won't hurt trying to run Prime for more than 5 hours just to make sure cpu and ram are ok..

if the cpu and/or ram is a problem you should get errors trying to run Prime 95 'torture test' in blend mode.. if that runs overnight without errors the signs are good..

http://mersenne.org/gimps/p95v2414.exe

Do you have more games than LFS? Probably?.. See if you can play other games for long periods of time or do they also crash / hang / reboot?

If you have a version of 3dmark (even 2001 will do) see if you can loop that for a few hours..

Temperature is not often the problem. Only REALLY dust clogged systems or failed fans might cause issues; although of course one or two poorly assembled systems with loose coolers etc might make temperature a problem.

A detailed list of your pc components might help too, to see what we're talking about!

Hey guys, in particular the Germans..

From 14 to 17 november there is some sort of electronics expo for which I have a free ticket. I have finally finished uni and really want to try and get something like a 6 month traineeship at BMW in Germany. New social challenge, newish language etc... The expo and BMW are in München, so I'm hoping to:
1) check out the expo
2) check out the city
3) hopefully check out BMW

Since LFS is pretty popular in Germany, and 14 november less than 2 weeks from now.. Who has some tips to some relatively cheap places where I can spend a couple of nights?

All tips are welcome!



/Niels

PS: if you know someone at BMW there, I'd like to get in touch to see if a quick tour of the company / introduction chat is possible..

The FF1800 drift video isn't even that bad. I wouldn't say spot on of course.. But if you could tripple or double a real FFord's steering lock, add power steering and a 250 degrees turning wheel, you might actually do roughly that..

With the limits of a real FFord, of course not..

I have yet to try it; sofar NKpro has been a huge dissapointment so I'm not expecting it to be a lot nicer.

The bad about LFS is that indeed the rear is very willing to overtake the front. I don't think driving cars 'fast' would give you such issues in real life.

The good is that you can apply 'logic' (countersteering etc) to get you out of the trouble..

So while I think the topic starter is right that there is a problem, you can certainly learn to deal with it a bit better. Eventually, hopefully, physics will be even better and driving will become more natural.

A given day, a given circumstance.. you have ISI physics and you're pretty much f@#ked

I never find it geeky when people are passionate about a hobby, as long as they still go out / have some sort of a life..

Many folks spend 4 hours a day watching telly. I find it far more enjoying to spend the time racing / designing pedals / wheels / shifters.. Perhaps thats geeky, it is for sure more intelligent and more fun!

Although not a big hit with the ladies.. So I've started playing drums for that. (which still has to pay off..)

off topic but putting a rear wing on the RA sounds a bit like trying to fix a leak in a dam when it has burst somewhere else: When things get more realistic the handling will improve and I don't think the RA will be so oversteery anymore..

vs N2003 is a tough one btw as ovals + nascars = so extremely different.. N2003 has some input lag, GPL doesn't.. I don't think the mods for N2003 work and they might not be fair to judge the N2003 engine with. I'd say the GTP mod is really not good for example. It almost has worse snap back than ISI sims: something definitely very wrong there. Still, NASCAR N2003 seems realistic and it seems that in the simracing physics gods scene Kaemmer is still the one to beat.

I briefly tried the GPL65 mod and wasn't too impressed, though it was too brief a try. Same goes for the 69 mod, tried briefly, but this did impress me. Perhaps I just need at least 2/3hp/kg to weight ratio

Can't wait to watch Todds vid, they have been impressive and most of all seem free of the (imo) weird things that
a) happen in ISI stuff without the user having any influence
b) can happen with LFS although normal driving inputs can actually do something about them..

Last edited by Niels Heusinkveld, Fri 27 Oct 2006, 07:30.

Any simracer should own both GPL and LFS.

Though probably less complex, GPL does quite a few things right. In fact, I'd say it would be a really good test for LFS to have a 400hp 600kg 1967 F1 car..

Now, the Lx6 has about that weight.. with half the power.. and look how easy it is to get the back out on that.. I imagine a 67 F1 car in LFS would be ideal in highlighting potential issues with physics and tyres. GPL does a pretty good job imo, the cars are certainly drivable, and when the back steps out a bit, you can apply 'logic' (some opposite lock, and perhaps some less power) to safe the thing..

Recently I've been making the bold statement that GPL does less 'big things' wrong than most new sims. Not many agree with that though..

Good thread sofar guys!

Part of the reason as JJ72 says is that you can end up running the GTI much like a real touring car... But for that we already have the race version of the GTI!

Also, suspension geometry works best with a very limited range of springs/rollbars. The range we have now, with fixed suspension geometry, can really put the tyres on strange cambers etc. Eventually, when physics improve, I would say it is important to 'design' the cars, not allowing people to tweak the springs + or - 100%.. Tuning (say +-25% from an 'optimal base') would make more sense.

I'm no expert on real (race) car setups but I doubt they really have such great variety in springs as the suspension is made to have optimal behaviour with a certain stiffness.

Last edited by Niels Heusinkveld, Thu 26 Oct 2006, 08:29.

This is a bold one..

I would say one of the problems with sims is that people are given the freedom to adjust car parameters, where road cars rarely offer much if anything adjustable. I really hope that LFS continues to improve physics wise and eventually gets scary realistic.

By then I would really just take a car that has been setup / tuned to something that is more or less unanimously 'realistic'... and live with it!

Instead of having a lot of things open, something like this would, to me at least, seem the right way:

All cars:
- steering lock (until everyone uses a 900deg wheel)
- tyre pressures

Performance cars (fz 50)
- few diff settings
- few ABS settings
- ...

Something like that. Perhaps some cars like the RA have some more adjustment options; the point being that available setup options would, imho, be better if they're not or less there for the roadcars.

How about that?

Do you find it 'unnatural' now that you're actually fast? The WR laps I have seen made me frown illepall . The way the cars are driven seems odd. And of course I blame my lack of speed on alledged physics unrealism..

I did 53.2 seconds on Monaco btw, but that was quite a few years ago.. Still have 'proof' of it, its in my versions highscores..

They're standard AC to DC adapters which should be available locally at RadioShack type stores.. As long as you get one rated at 0.75 amp (or more) and 24 volt.. Often you get a load of plugs with the adapters, often one fits..

hmmm BBT, If I continue that analogy S3 would be quite a monster if it was female....

It was S1 with LFSTweak that made me admire the current sound.. err.. engine. A "V" engine sounds like a V.. A boxer like a boxer.. A straight 5 does have a good hint of that fast Focus or old Volvo 850s.. At low revs they are all quite believable.

I have no clue how it works but the engine sound engine certainly gets the basic physics quite right which I find fascinating. Of course the 'pop' an engine makes is only the base, which is where LFS currently seems to stop. In reality the exhaust is pretty complex and pretty important to the sound produced.. And of course everything will start to vibrate and make noise..

Anyway much like the 'rest' of LFS, I like what is currently there as the thought behind it seems the proper one. Of course one man can not program fast enough to make all the aspects of the sim better in a few months or even a few years..